Something I'd like to clarify is that some commentary I've read has been to the effect of 'the support for lots of these clades is low, so be skeptical.' That's true in the broad sense, but my point was that TWiG analyses over the past two decades also have low support for these clades, they just hardly ever report it. You see e.g. Deinonychosauria again and again not because it's strongly supported in any TWiG analysis, but rather because scorings are reused and each analysis weakly supports Deinonychosauria based on the same weak character evidence. So don't think the Lori analysis has unusually weak support for these clades, but rather that previous TWiG analyses don't report their support levels so you never knew how weak they were.
In any case, here's the full topology of taxa I consider strongly supported as maniraptoromorphs...
The next 'big picture' concept is a fairly standard maniraptoriform topology of ornithomimosaurs branching first, then alvarezsaurs and therizinosaurs, then Pennaraptora. What I found interesting about this area of the tree is that it's highly unstable. As I wrote, "only four steps are required
to get a result similar to Sereno’s (1999) where alvarezsauroids are sister to ornithomimosaurs
and therizinosaurs sister to that pair. Similarly, while we recover a pairing of alvarezsauroids
and therizinosaurs to the exclusion of pennaraptorans, placing therizinosaurs closer
to the latter clade merely needs three additional steps. Positioning alvarezsauroids sister
to Pennaraptora or putting therizinosaurs just outside Maniraptoriformes are slightly
less parsimonious at six steps each..." So Maniraptora is not the stable clade, Pennaraptora is. For instance, moving therizinosaurs sister to oviraptorosaurs as used to be common in the late 90s-early 00s requires 13 steps while placing alvarezsaurs as paravians takes 11 steps.
Alternative topologies for major maniraptoriform clades in the Lori matrix showing the number of extra steps needed from the most parsimonious trees. |
Whatever Hesperornithoides is, it's clearly paravian, and paravian topology proved particularly labile in my analysis. Your initial reaction might be 'hey, Xu et al. 2011 were right, and Archaeopteryx is a basal deinonychosaur." Maybe. But placing archaeopterygids (including 'anchiornithines') as avialans or sister to troodontids is only a step longer each. Add to this scansoriopterygids, which are avialans in the most parsimonious trees but move to basal paravians in a single step, and troodontids, which are deinonychosaurs but move to Avialae in a single step, and the basic topology of Paraves is uncertain. This isn't to say all alternatives are great though, as dromaeosaurids closer to birds than troodontids takes six more steps, and archaeopterygids basal to troodontids, dromaeosaurids and avialans takes 15 more steps. Oviraptorosaurian scansoriopterygids are 12 steps longer. So we have a subset of plausible alternatives, and that's where the research should be focusing. Stratigraphically basal deinonychosaurian archaeopterygids and basal avialan scansoriopterygids make sense, but who knows.
Alternative topologies for major paravian clades in the Lori matrix showing the number of extra steps needed from the most parsimonious trees. |
Finally, let's go over the basal avialan results. I've always recovered Balaur as an avialan as in Cau et al. (2015) and it takes 8 steps to move to Dromaeosauridae. Surprisingly, Hesperonychus groups with Balaur instead of microraptorians. It only takes three steps to move to Microraptoria, but the stratigraphy is a better fit by Balaur. "The branching order of Jehol non-ornithothoracine birds has been contentious, with our matrix supporting Sapeornis branching first, followed by jeholornithids then confuciusornithiforms. Jeholornithids branching first is only three steps longer, but Sapeornis branching last as in some recent analyses requires 12 more steps." Between confuciusornithiforms and Ornithothoraces are Chongmingia, Yandangornis and Jinguofortis. "... Jinguofortis joins Chongmingia in only three steps. Our analysis supports the latter’s position close to Ornithothoraces as in p2 of Wang et al.’s (2016) figure 7, whereas moving it to their p1 more stemward of Jeholornis and Sapeornis requires 11 more steps."
There are hundreds of other things to say about the topology, but next time I'm going to switch gears and discuss my first successful experience with peer review. In the mean time, if any of you have questions about taxon placements or alternative topologies, feel free to ask.
References- Sereno, 1999. The evolution of dinosaurs. Science. 284(5423), 2137-2147.
DOI: 10.1126/science.284.5423.2137
Perez-Moreno, 2004. Pelecanimimus polyodon: Anatomía, sistemática y paleobiología de un
Ornithomimosauria (Dinosauria: Theropoda) de Las Hoyas (Cretácico Inferior; Cuenca,
España). PhD thesis, Universidad Autónoma de Madrid. 149 pp.
Choiniere, 2010. Anatomy and systematics of coelurosaurian theropods from the Late Jurassic of Xinjiang, China, with comments on forelimb evolution in Theropoda. PhD thesis, George Washington University. 994 pp.
Choiniere, Xu, Clark, Forster, Guo and Han, 2010. A basal alvarezsauroid theropod from the Early Late Jurassic of Xinjiang, China. Science. 327(5965), 571-574. DOI: 10.1126/science.1182143
Alifanov and Saveliev, 2011. Brain structure and neurobiology of alvarezsaurians (Dinosauria), exemplified by Ceratonykus oculatus (Parvicursoridae) from the Late Cretaceous of Mongolia. Paleontological Journal. 45(2), 183-190. DOI: 10.1134/S0031030111020031
Choiniere, Forster and De Klerk, 2012. New information on Nqwebasaurus thwazi,
a coelurosaurian theropod from the Early Cretaceous Kirkwood Formation in South Africa.
Journal of African Earth Sciences. 71-72, 1-17. DOI: 10.1016/j.jafrearsci.2012.05.005
Senter, Kirkland, DeBlieux, Madsen and Toth, 2012. New dromaeosaurids (Dinosauria:
Theropoda) from the Lower Cretaceous of Utah, and the evolution of the dromaeosaurid tail.
PLOS ONE. 7(5), e36790. DOI: 10.1371/journal.pone.0036790.
Agnolin and Novas, 2013. Avian ancestors: a review of the phylogenetic relationships of the
theropods Unenlagiidae, Microraptoria, Anchiornis and Scansoriopterygidae. Netherlands:
Springer. 96 pp. DOI: 10.1007/978-94-007-5637-3_1
Brusatte, Lloyd, Wang and Norell, 2014. Gradual assembly of avian body plan
culminated in rapid rates of evolution across the dinosaur-bird transition. Current Biology.
24(20), 2386-2392. DOI: 10.1016/j.cub.2014.08.034
Cau, Brougham and Naish, 2015. The phylogenetic affinities of the bizarre Late Cretaceous
Romanian theropod Balaur bondoc (Dinosauria, Maniraptora): dromaeosaurid or flightless
bird? PeerJ. 3:e1032. DOI: 10.7717/peerj.1032
Wang, Wang, Wang and Zhou, 2016. A new basal bird from China with implications for
morphological diversity in early birds. Scientific Reports. 6:19700. DOI: 10.1038/srep19700
Cau, 2018. The assembly of the avian body plan: a 160-million-year long process. Bollettino della
Società Paleontologica Italiana. 57(1),1-25. DOI: 10.4435/BSPI.2018.01
Macdonald and Currie, 2018. Description of a partial Dromiceiomimus (Dinosauria: Theropoda)
skeleton with comments on the validity of the genus. Canadian Journal of Earth Sciences. 56(2), 129-157. DOI: 10.1139/cjes-2018-0162
Hartman, Mortimer, Wahl, Lomax, Lippincott and Lovelace, 2019. A new paravian dinosaur from the Late Jurassic of North America supports a late acquisition of avian flight. PeerJ7:e7247. DOI: 10.7717/peerj.7247
How stable is the grouping of Archaeopteryx with other archaeopterygids? This group has been alternatively known as Anchiornithidae so it's rather important to know how solidly Archaeopterygidae being the right name for it is.
ReplyDeleteSofar as Unenlagiidae goes, do you think it would be a good idea to redefine it to be excluded from Dromaeosauridae even in the traditional placement where it's considered a subfamily? Given this let's us always use the family name instead of switching all the time. Likewise, Unenlagiinae could become the name for the traditional grouping within the family, since Halszkaraptorinae is also included.
It depends on your starting tree and what topology you're constraining. If Archaeopteryx is a deinonychosaur, forcing it to be basal to anchiornithines plus other deinonychosaurs takes 12 extra steps. If Archaeopteryx is an avialan, forcing it closer to Aves than anchiornithines takes 5 steps. I've recently scored each Archaeopteryx specimen seperately (except the Maxburg and chicken wing) and am in the process of scoring 8 Anchiornis specimens separately, so we'll have better data on this soon.
DeleteRegarding Unenlagiidae, that's exactly what I did in the supplementary info- "Unenlagiidae- (Unenlagia comahuensis <- Archaeopteryx lithographica, Troodon formosus, Dromaeosaurus albertensis, Passer domesticus) NEW". I did the second thing as well- "Unenlagiinae - (Unenlagia comahuensis <- Halszkaraptor escuilliei, Microraptor zhaoianus, Velociraptor mongoliensis, Dromaeosaurus albertensis, Passer domesticus) NEW". Great minds think alike.
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DeleteHow many extra steps does it take to have a monophyletic Anchiornithinae with Archaeopteryx as more basal in Archaeopterygidae and outside the clade containing Serikornis, Anchiornis, Aurornis, Eosinopteryx, Caihong etc.?
DeleteCorrelated shifting of clades is also frequent in my analysis. Usually, some clades have a couple of favorite alternative placements, and move to one of these alternatives according to other clade movements. Usually, one options are: branches forming a paraphyletic grade A + others forming clade B, vs clade A + grade B.
ReplyDeleteThe situation described in the first two sentences has been very common in my analyses, too. I mention several cases somewhere in my huge paper.
DeleteNote that all unenlagiines have been found in deposits younger than the Cenomanian, and we'll have to wait for a newly described raptor dino from South America to confirm that Unenlagiinae and Halszkaraptorinae form a distinct clade to the exclusion of troodontids and all dromaeosaurids traditionally assigned to Microraptoria, Dromaeosaurinae, and Velociraptorinae.
ReplyDeleteOrnithodesmus is Barremian, if my assignment is correct. Also, the Solnhofen Alcmonavis emerged there when I added it after submission. So we might get some earlier members, and both European interestingly enough.
DeleteAssuming that your initial placement of Ornithodesmus in Unenlagiinae is correct, then Ornithodesmidae would have priority over Unenlagiinae and Unenlagiidae, and Unenlagiinae could become a subfamily given Ornithodesmus' older age.
DeleteAlso, the Solnhofen Alcmonavis emerged there when I added it after submission.
DeleteHa! That would make six origins of flight, two of them within Unenlagiidae/Ornithodesmidae! :-)
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Delete"Assuming that your initial placement of Ornithodesmus in Unenlagiinae is correct, then Ornithodesmidae would have priority over Unenlagiinae and Unenlagiidae, and Unenlagiinae could become a subfamily given Ornithodesmus' older age."
DeleteTechnically yes, but realistically Ornithodesmus is only weakly supported as going there, so I wouldn't recommend changing any family-level names until better evidence than the Lori analysis was presented.
"That would make six origins of flight, two of them within Unenlagiidae/Ornithodesmidae!"
Unless Alcmonavis was closer to Rahonavis than to flightless unenlagiines, or if unenlagiines were primitively volant and lost flight 1-4 times.
Speaking of the Alcmonavis paper, have you tested that ((Sapeornis+Jinguofortis)+Jeholornithidae) clade?
DeleteI can't Ornithodesmus in the cladogram listed in the blog post, even though Hartmann et al. mention it in the text. Any idea what happened?
ReplyDeleteOrnithodesmus is among several taxa that had multiple equally parsimonious positions, so we pruned it a posteriori from the published cladogram. I list all of these taxa and their recovered range of positions in the supplementary info under "Positions of maniraptoromorphs pruned a posteriori." In the case of Ornithodesmus, it's an "Unenlagiine in the Pyroraptor+Unenlagia clade."
DeleteI would love some comment on the additional lengths to recover more traditional arrangements for eudromaeosaurs. Dromaeosaurus nested within asian "velociraptorine" taxa rather than Utahraptor and co. is one of the more bizarre placements in your tree for mine.
ReplyDeleteAn interesting thing about the dromaeosaurid part of the tree is that most suggested basic rearrangements happen in two steps or less. I found that Dromaeosaurinae is more inclusive than usual, and that Deinonychus and the Utah+Achillo pair make a third main clade. Rearranging these three clades into any combination takes 2 steps. Forcing Dromaeosaurus closer to Utah+Achillo than Deinonychus also takes 2 steps (IGM 100/22+23 follows).
Deleteoh interesting. Thank you for the answer.
Delete“Gondwanan Pyroraptor and Ornithodesmus”
ReplyDeleteDid you mean “Laurasian”?
Do you suspect that the basal placement of Lithornis is genuine (as Mayr has argued)?
Do you trust oviraptorid Incisivosaurus or neoavian Paraortygoides?
How many steps are needed for:
1. Paravian Protarchaeopteryx?
2. Avialan oviraptorosaurs?
3. The traditional deinonychosaur/avialan dichotomy (with the latter including archaeopterygids & scansoriopterygids)?
4. Palaeotis & Struthio as sister taxa?
5. Anseriformes sister to Neoaves?
6. Sauriurae?
7. Galloanseres?
8. Vegavids outside Neornithes?
"Did you mean “Laurasian”?"
DeleteThat's a mistake for my trying to say Cretaceous Europe often resembles Gondwana more than Northern Asia or North America (E.g. spinosaurids, abelisaurs, common titanosaurs).
"Do you suspect that the basal placement of Lithornis is genuine (as Mayr has argued)?"
I think we'd need a matrix with more paleognath characters than mine and more non-crown taxa than published paleognath analyses.
"Do you trust oviraptorid Incisivosaurus or neoavian Paraortygoides?"
No and no, the former only takes 1 step to change while the matrix has a distinct lack of proposed neoavian or galliform characters.
"1. Paravian Protarchaeopteryx?" 3, it's in the paperr.
"2. Avialan oviraptorosaurs?" 12, it's also in the paper.
"6. Sauriurae?" 51 to join Archaeopteryx and enantiornithines to the exclusion of Aves, 57 if you want Confuciusornis in there too.
I'll have to test the others.
Some questions about more basal Coelurosauria, i.e. those more basal than the Ornitholestes+ clade shown in the cladogram.
Delete1) "several taxa usually considered members of [Compsognathidae] (e.g., Huaxiagnathus, Juravenator, Mirischia, Sinocalliopteryx) branch off more basally"
I don't see Mirischia on the cladogram. Is that because it is more basal than Ornitholestes, or because it is difficult to pin down?
2) "Megaraptorans and a clade of proceratosaurids and coelurids branch first after tyrannosauroids"
Which was more basal?
3) "megaraptorans or the coelurid-proceratosaurid group can be constrained to Tyrannosauroidea in only four steps"
Is it that both groups simultaneously go to Tyrannosauroidea in only four steps? Or each group separately? If separately, how many steps for both megaraptorans and coelurids+proceratosaurids to end up in Tyrannosauroidea?
4) Is the Proceratosauridae you recovered limited to the usual suspects (Proceratosaurus, Guanlong, Sinotyrannus, Kileskus), or does it include others (e.g. Juratyrant, Stokesosaurus), as in Loewen et al. (2013)?
5) Where did you find Bicentenaria, Zuolong, and Chilesaurus?
Lastly, The cladogram only shows Ornitholestes+, but your analysis was much larger. Did you exclude the rest just for the sake of space? or because you're worried readers won't heed your warning that the matrix is not well-suited for assessing the relationships of non-Maniraptoromorphs?
First, the mpt is in the tnt file, so anyone can view it. I'll post about it here at some point.
Delete"I don't see Mirischia on the cladogram. Is that because it is more basal than Ornitholestes, or because it is difficult to pin down?"
It's a proceratosaurid/coelurid.
""Megaraptorans and a clade of proceratosaurids and coelurids branch first after tyrannosauroids"
Which was more basal?"
Megaraptorans.
"Is it that both groups simultaneously go to Tyrannosauroidea in only four steps? Or each group separately? If separately, how many steps for both megaraptorans and coelurids+proceratosaurids to end up in Tyrannosauroidea?"
Separately in 4 steps each. Have yet to check if both are forced there at once.
"Is the Proceratosauridae you recovered limited to the usual suspects (Proceratosaurus, Guanlong, Sinotyrannus, Kileskus), or does it include others (e.g. Juratyrant, Stokesosaurus), as in Loewen et al. (2013)?"
Proceratosaurids and coelurids mix together. Sinotyrannus is sister to Yutyrannus in Tyrannosauroidea, while Juratyrant is sister to Eotyrannus in Tyrannosauroidea. Stokesosaurus was excluded as it was too unstable.
"5) Where did you find Bicentenaria, Zuolong, and Chilesaurus?"
In the saved tree, Bicentenaria is a eustreptospondylid megalosauroid and Zuolong is the most basal megaraptoran. I can't remember if they can fall out in other places though. Chilesaurus was not included since I have no confidence its an averostran, but came out as an alvarezsauroid in an earlier version. I still have it scored, so I could check.
"The cladogram only shows Ornitholestes+, but your analysis was much larger. Did you exclude the rest just for the sake of space? or because you're worried readers won't heed your warning that the matrix is not well-suited for assessing the relationships of non-Maniraptoromorphs?"
Closer to the latter. They were included to help attract potential coelurosaur mimics like Afromimus and to provide a decently extensive outgroup to polarize Coelurus', Tanycdolagreus' and Ornitholestes' character states, to help test Rauhut's idea Lori could be a juvenile of those. But the topology itself is not based on good assumptions, so it's not something I wanted confused for a useful result.
What happens when “Protoavis” is added to the matrix (assuming Chatterjee’s description is accurate)?
ReplyDeleteIt isn't accurate. The neck and probably the head belong to a drepanosaurid; the ilium is pieced together from tiny fragments, and the space between them filled with glue; and so on.
DeleteI would need to score Protoavis. Which sounds like a fun project and post, but merely out of historical interest since David's correct that the Protoavis animal hypothesized by Chatterjee isn't a thing.
DeleteA fun project? Sounds like a world of pain.
DeleteSorry for double-commenting, but how many steps are needed for arctometatarsalian Avimimus or Xu et al.’s (2010) alternative pennaraptoran topology?
ReplyDeleteHaven't checked Avimimus, and which Xu et al. topology do you mean? The Xiaotingia one?
DeleteThe paper "Pre-Archaeopteryx coelurosaurian dinosaurs and their implications for understanding avian origins". Archaeopterygids are deinonychosaurs, scansoriopterygids are oviraptorosaurs & the latter are sister to birds.
DeleteApologies for indulging a personal tic and beating a dead language to death, as I know your specialty is phylogeny and not alpha taxonomy or Clessical languages, but the statement, from the *Hesperornithoides* description, that "[t]he trivial epithet honors the Miessler family" is not quite accurate.
ReplyDeleteThat may have been the intent, but in actuality the form *miessleri* can only honor a single male individual of that family.
I brought this up in review. (Hey Scott, I told you someone would say this!...)
DeleteAaaaarrrrrrrrgh. I overlooked this.
DeleteThis is one of the many, many cases where the ICZN (Articles 31–33) is unclear on whether this is a correct or an incorrect original spelling.
Seriously, how hard can it be to keep us out of that mess? English spelling distinguishes 's from s', too!
I've seen it argued that since "the Miessler family" is a singular unit, the "-i" suffix is technically acceptable. Much like how, say, Vegavis iaai uses the "-i" suffix, even though "the Instituto Antártico Argentino (IAA) expedition that collected the specimen" was made up of multiple people. Whereas had the etymology been "for Howard and Helen Miessler," the "-orum" suffix would be mandatory. At least, that's what Peter Dodson claimed in defense of the original spelling of Avaceratops lammersi, in his book The Horned Dinosaurs. The current ceratopsid literature does call it "lammersi."
DeleteI've seen it argued that since "the Miessler family" is a singular unit, the "-i" suffix is technically acceptable.
DeleteThat's not how Latin works. The Iulius/Iulia family is collectively referred to as Iulii, plural. If anything can save Avaceratops lammersi, it's whatever the intended meaning of Art. 31–33 is.
One institute, on the hand, is of course singular. Its name refers to it, not to any components.
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ReplyDeleteOff a skim of the paper and post it's never addressed how solid the grouping of Unenlagiinae and Halskaraptorinae is - how easy is it to move Halskaraptorinae to any number of other positions in Deinonychosauria?
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure how much stock I should put in the topology of crown Aves, given that it wasn't the focus of the paper. But are you surprised that "saltariensis" (I guess this is "Martinavis saltariensis") and _Limenavis_ both end up among the palaeognaths?
ReplyDeleteI was wondering, what happens if every part of Dakotaraptor is tested as a separate OTU?
ReplyDeletehttps://theropoda.blogspot.com/2023/09/dakotaraptor-non-esiste.html
That would be a tedious task resulting in lots of polytomies I'm sure, but Cau's arguments are sound. A eudromaeosaur/caenagnathid chimaera sounds like something that might pop out among unenlagiines considering the gracility of the latter. Although I wouldn't say Dakotaraptor doesn't exist, but instead it depends on what element is used as the lectotype.
DeleteDo you think it's possible that Dineobellator is an Unenlagiine because of Dakotaraptor being there?
DeleteJust had a chance to test this by replacing the chimaera Dakotaraptor with the new extremely fragmentary supposed unenlagiine Diuqin. Dineobellator moves to the Bambiraptor+Variraptor clade.
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DeleteWell, it clading with Bambiraptor makes more sense considering biogeography. Does the removal of Dakotaraptor and Dineobellator moving to Dromaeosauridae affect the topology within Deinonychosauria, Dromaeosauridae and Unenlagiidae in any way?
Delete